Earning Back Trust in Aerospace: The SON-AERO Story

SPEAKERS

Jeff Greer, CEO of SON-AERO (Sonfarrel Aerospace)

Sunny Han, Founder & CEO of Fulcrum

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Sunny Han 00:00

Welcome to another episode of Capacity Today. We’re here with Jeff Greer from SON-AERO. SON-AERO is an AS9100 aerospace company making rubber, metal, and plastic components for a variety of applications. Behind them are some cool things — they’ve made parts for Tomahawk cruise missiles, the Space Shuttle, and M1 81 tanks. A really great operation. Welcome, Jeff.

Jeff Greer 00:22

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Sunny Han 00:24

Of course. You have a very interesting story. This is a really old business — it’s been around since 1955 — and you came into the picture in the mid-2010s. Tell me the story. How did you get into this business?

Jeff Greer 00:38

I was in public accounting for 21 years. This company, Somphile Inc., was one of my clients. I’d served them since I started as staff, and they were still my client when I became a partner. It was a great company — they performed very well. It was owned by a husband and wife; the husband’s father started the company in 1955, so this was second generation, and they were in their 80s. The husband passed away in 2013, and the company really started to struggle after that for various reasons. There were issues with the CEO at the time, and the owner — the widow — asked me to come on as CEO in 2015.

Sunny Han 01:40

Was the CEO at that time a family member or an outside hire?

Jeff Greer 01:44

An outside hire. He’d worked there for a number of years, but there were decisions being made, and changes in the industry — certain platforms they were selling parts for were changing — that caused difficulties.

Sunny Han 02:02

But historically, when you were their CPA, it was very profitable.

Jeff Greer 02:06

Very profitable — a cash cow. In 2013–14 they started to struggle, losing money. I figured I could swoop in, make changes, get it back on course, and it would be easy. It didn’t turn out that way.

Sunny Han 02:43

So they’re losing money. How were they funding the losses? With a smaller company it’s hard to fund that, right?

Jeff Greer 02:49

It is. The owner was funding it. She had to put a lot of money back into the company. It was a difficult time.

Sunny Han 02:59

What were the conversations like at the time? As her CPA, were you saying, “Hey, I need a million-dollar check this month,” or how did that work?

Jeff Greer 03:07

Before I came here, she was just putting the money in. We had a few conversations. When I got in, I realized there was a lot more going on. You start peeling back the onion and see major issues contributing to the revenue decline.

Sunny Han 03:43

How quickly did that become obvious?

Jeff Greer 03:51

Pretty quickly. Six months after I started, we got a call from Boeing saying they were pulling out and didn’t want to do business with us. They couldn’t share details but said, “We’re out. Ship everything you have on order early; we’re not placing more orders.” That was a major hit. We were an open book and helped with their investigation. By August, they were back in, saying they’d continue to work with us.

Sunny Han 04:39

What was your messaging to the team?

Jeff Greer 04:43

It was hard because we couldn’t tell them much. Boeing couldn’t tell us why either, though we had a sense. We told the team, “This is out of our control. We’re doing the right things to move forward.” We did have to do some layoffs because of it.

Sunny Han 05:15

So, punched by Boeing. What else happened in that period?

Jeff Greer 05:20

It was a closely held, family-run business for 50–60 years — second-generation ownership, and third generation working in the business.

Sunny Han 05:34

How many were there?

Jeff Greer 05:38

Four worked in the business — three children and one granddaughter.

Sunny Han 05:46

It’s hard to carve out that many positions in a smaller company.

Jeff Greer 05:51

It wasn’t too bad — some worked in the shop, some in maintenance, some in accounting — spread out, not all upper management. The biggest challenge was that when I tried to make changes — new policies, procedures — if that rubbed certain individuals the wrong way, they’d complain to the owner, and she’d say, “No, you’re not going to do that.” We’d build an executive team, do strategic planning, decide to implement something, and at first it was “Go ahead,” but once certain individuals saw it, she’d say, “No, you’re not doing that.”

Sunny Han 06:43

Was that insecurity?

Jeff Greer 06:48

I think so — a belief that we didn’t need to change because we’d been fine for years. They couldn’t see that we were losing a lot of money, putting money back into the company, and things weren’t going well. We needed changes; they couldn’t see it.

Sunny Han 07:12

What was your strategy when you weren’t allowed to make obvious changes?

Jeff Greer 07:27

It’s difficult — your legs get cut out from under you, and coworkers see that and think any decision you make won’t be supported. We made changes where we could, implemented what we could, avoided ruffling feathers in certain areas. We knew areas to stay away from. Changing the culture was really hard. It didn’t really happen until we took over.

Sunny Han 08:09

How did you deal with that mentally and operationally?

Jeff Greer 08:20

The mental part was tough — coming to work knowing certain influential individuals didn’t care for you because of the changes you wanted. It’s hard to lead and be the cheerleader for the rest of the team while pushing forward. There were a lot of bad habits. My COO and I visited customers; they weren’t fun meetings. Many said, “We’re not going to do business with you much longer — you don’t deliver, you’re late, quality issues.” I had to say, “We’re changing. We’re implementing new things. We’ll get on the right track. Stay with us.” Those first couple of years of meetings were very difficult.

Sunny Han 09:42

A couple years is a long time. Did you think about quitting?

Jeff Greer 09:45

I did. I came from a good situation as a partner at a national CPA firm. But I felt called to do this and wanted to be part of it. Despite the struggle, I felt I was in the right place.

Sunny Han 10:25

Who were your allies? Were you able to build a coalition?

Jeff Greer 10:36

Yes. My COO, Ken Anderson, from the start. Our current plant manager, Alberto Silva, saw I wanted to make the right changes. We built an executive team and hired a few new people who embraced what we were trying to do.

Sunny Han 11:19

You’re crawling through mud for three years. Were you able to turn it around? What were the results?

Jeff Greer 11:35

We started to turn around. Scorecards with customers improved, shipments increased, bookings rose. The owner decided to sell. I told her, “By this time next year we’ll be fine,” but she was tapped out and didn’t want to keep funding another year, which she would’ve had to do. So she decided to sell.

Sunny Han 12:17

Did her mindset change over time?

Jeff Greer 12:33

When I came in, I felt like her most trusted advisor. After about a year, others influenced her, saying, “You can’t trust him or the changes he’s making.” I stopped having the same conversations. She brought in attorneys who made decisions about exiting. I was out of those conversations toward the end.

Sunny Han 13:09

As an outside CEO, when you stop talking to the owner, that’s a spidey sense you might lose your job.

Jeff Greer 13:16

From what I hear, I almost did. There were a number of times she considered letting me go. Fortunately, she didn’t.

Sunny Han 13:29

Were you competing for the job with one of the children or anyone else?

Jeff Greer 13:33

No competition for my position. It was resistance to change more than resistance to me. It wasn’t really from the owner; it was others influencing her. They didn’t see the dire straits the company was in. The attitude was, “Keep doing business the way we have for 50 years and we’ll be fine.” It wasn’t working.

Sunny Han 14:14

It seems drastic to go from not trusting you and cutting off communication to selling you the business. What happened?

Jeff Greer 14:42

She didn’t have a choice not to sell to me — I had first right of refusal as part of my employment agreement. She found a buyer; if I could match it, I had the right to buy. That’s how I purchased it.

Sunny Han 15:01

So when you became CEO, you had some expectation you might own it someday?

Jeff Greer 15:07

Yes. She was in her 80s — likely to sell within five to ten years — and I might have an opportunity to purchase.

Sunny Han 15:19

How did that first right work? Was there a bidding war?

Jeff Greer 15:27

No. She found a buyer and settled on a price; I just had to match it. No bidding war. She went to market; the market set the value.

Sunny Han 15:40

Did you know she was working with a broker?

Jeff Greer 15:44

Yes. I supplied all the information they needed. They determined the price, and I said, “We can match that,” with a group of investors.

Sunny Han 15:57

Were you lining up investors in parallel?

Jeff Greer 16:01

Yes. I was already finding investors so we’d be ready, because I only had 30–60 days once there was an offer. I made sure I had a group ready.

Sunny Han 16:19

It seems tricky — convincing investors to buy an unprofitable business while dealing with an owner who wants to sell. What was that period like?

Jeff Greer 16:51

Difficult. I told the owner I thought within a year we’d be turned around, and I felt we were heading that way.

Sunny Han 17:01

Not everyone would be that transparent with a right of first refusal.

Jeff Greer 17:06

Maybe, but you have to be honest. One of our core values is “Do the right thing.” Sometimes it costs you, but if you don’t, it comes back to bite you. I was upfront with her about what I saw coming. She was done. With investors, I said, “Here’s where we are, where we’ve been, and where I think we’re going.” It could be very lucrative if we do the right things. The ownership team we brought in has strong business experience — manufacturing in other industries — and they believed it was worth the chance.

Sunny Han 18:13

Did you have to pitch a lot of people?

Jeff Greer 18:17

I had two groups: one from Texas and one in Southern California. I initially chose the Texas group, then backed out and went with the California group. It was the right fit.

Sunny Han 18:39

How long did the sale and transition take?

Jeff Greer 18:55

A while. We bought the assets and formed a new company with a new name. The old company was Sonfarrel Inc.; we were Sonfarrel Aerospace LLC — a different entity. You have to change things with customers and the government, sign agreements, transfer contracts — it takes time, and customers take time to update systems. We still get orders under the old CAGE code and have to correct them. The process is long and arduous. We had a great investor group and funded the company well. We knew we’d struggle for a bit. We took over in October 2018, finished that year okay. By the end of 2019 we were turning around and were profitable that year.

Sunny Han 20:23

Were you expecting to lose customers in the transition?

Jeff Greer 20:26

No. It’s difficult for customers to change vendors; there has to be strong reason. We were improving and they could see it. It was still the same facility, machinery, and mostly the same people, so there wasn’t much to scare them off. They stayed, which was great.

Sunny Han 21:11

You spent four years saying things would change, and after a year or so they did.

Jeff Greer 21:19

They started to. Toward the end of 2019, things improved — then COVID hit in 2020.

Sunny Han 21:30

Before we go there: people talk about CEO–company fit. You seem to fit this place in a specific way, despite no background in manufacturing or aerospace. Why are you the right archetype to run this business?

Jeff Greer 22:05

I didn’t know aerospace or manufacturing when I took the job; it’s been a big learning experience. My life experiences prepared me. I was the first in my family to go to college. My dad was a pipeline welder. I went to junior college, screwed around, failed, then worked five years in construction as a welder’s helper and pipefitter. I got married, my wife was in college, and I decided to go back so I could keep up. I studied accounting and became a CPA.

Sunny Han 23:49

Does she know you went back for her?

Jeff Greer 23:51

Yes. Those experiences — blue-collar and white-collar — gave me perspective. On the construction side, we’d make fun of guys in suits. On the other side, I learned it’s hard work too — just different. Here, you work with people in the office and on the factory floor. That perspective helps.

Sunny Han 24:58

You seem to care a lot about your team. What came naturally, and what was hard to learn?

Jeff Greer 25:10

I care about our employees. I tell the executive team our purpose is to help them succeed — training to advance, or even to leave if that’s best for them. Caring doesn’t mean avoiding hard decisions. Sometimes you have to let people go. We had layoffs during COVID and before; fortunately, I rehired some later. Sometimes there’s tough love — doing what’s right for the individual and the company, even if it’s painful.

Sunny Han 26:41

Back to 2019 looking up — then COVID hits. What happened?

Jeff Greer 26:51

We were essential, so we didn’t shut down. Eighty percent of our work is defense, twenty percent commercial. The commercial side dropped off completely; that hurt. There was a general slowdown: processing orders, getting things into systems, both with customers and internally — distancing, restrictions, etc. Work went slower, causing loss in revenue. Our ownership team funded us through it, and we got through.

Sunny Han 27:56

How long did that last?

Jeff Greer 28:00

It started in 2020. 2020 was actually fine. 2021 and 2022 were the worst. By the end of 2023 we were back doing well.

Sunny Han 28:13

In the last couple of years you’ve grown like crazy — faster than the industry. You said it’s hard for customers to change vendors, yet you’ve become the painkiller. With no manufacturing or aerospace background, what has guided you to drive that level of success? What principles let you pull that off?

Jeff Greer 29:05

Our core values: do the right thing, integrity, respect, and excellence. It’s about building trust. Our customers didn’t trust us; former leadership lied to them. Rebuilding trust takes time: doing the right thing, reporting issues, even if they happened in the past; communicating early, not the day before a shipment. We also used resources from tier-one customers — trainings and programs to improve quality. They saw we were investing and changing, which rebuilt trust and brought more work.

Sunny Han 31:16

Some owners fear that taking classes admits they don’t know what they’re doing. How did you and your team think about it?

Jeff Greer 31:30

That’s a mistake. None of us knows everything. There’s often a better way. Asking for help isn’t admitting incompetence; it’s seeking improvement. You must keep growing and separating from competition. Our customers are fine with that.

Sunny Han 32:25

It can feel zero-sum — training advantages them, not you. What did you find?

Jeff Greer 32:46

The assistance benefited us greatly. I love working with Lockheed Martin; they care about suppliers. They’ve done spaghetti maps here, helped with quality — they want you to succeed overall, not just on their parts. Others have been similar. They help you become better, which in turn helps them.

Sunny Han 34:04

From our perspective, you own mistakes and improve processes; when we’re in the wrong, you’re reasonable and fact-based. Did you create that, or was it buried under prior issues? Can other shops create it? How did that translate into output improvements?

Jeff Greer 34:54

The culture was poor when I arrived. People hid things and sidestepped procedures. I focused on culture: integrity, honesty, respect, and pursuing excellence. Follow procedures, be accountable, report issues quickly, communicate with customers early. Culture work is hard and takes time. Sometimes you remove long-tenured people who won’t change. Even after 10 years, some old-culture mindset remains, but we keep weeding it out. It’s a process; stick to it and people get on board.

Sunny Han 37:20

Sometimes the people you let go are important — unique skills or knowledge. How did you work through that?

Jeff Greer 37:33

It still comes back to culture. If someone won’t fit the culture or follow procedures, you make the decision that’s best for the company. Everyone’s replaceable — including me. It may take time and training to get a replacement up to speed, but you have to do it.

Sunny Han 38:22

That speaks to long-term thinking. Growth costs money; you have lofty goals you keep achieving. How do you balance short-term needs with long-term investment? Is there a limit where you have to prioritize short-term survival?

Jeff Greer 38:58

We were tested during COVID. We shipped anything customers would take early — we needed cash. That goes against some policies you’d normally follow, but sometimes you do what you must to survive. Long term, you return to your strategies so you can meet long-term goals and build company value. It’s hard to evaluate tradeoffs — quick revenue now can hurt later. We try to think long term. We only had to break normal policy once, during COVID, and ownership’s support — and their belief in me — helped us through.

Sunny Han 40:51

With rapid growth ahead, how do you make sure your values and philosophy scale as you hire, add leaders, and introduce bureaucracy without becoming too rigid? You’re approaching the point where you either stay this size or make the next leap.

Jeff Greer 41:26

We want a family-owned feel for employees but run like a professional organization. That means policies and procedures, and training people to adhere to them. When someone new joins, we train them on skills and on ethics and how we do business. You must establish and hold those policies, especially for growth, or you won’t sustain it. We’ve implemented the right software — MRP, accounting — and tackled industry requirements like cybersecurity and CMMC early so we’re ready when customers require them. Don’t decide too late. Forecast, stay ahead of the curve. Our ownership encourages hiring good people ahead of demand so we’re ready when work comes in.

Sunny Han 44:20

Those are the two pieces of advice I keep failing to follow. Charlie Munger calls it “thumb-sucking” — delaying action. There’s also the fallacy of thinking you must get bigger before hiring, when really you hire to enable growth. On the shop floor, you embody: make to spec, high quality, on time — then work backward to change ops to deliver. If someone wants to work with you, how should they get in touch?

Jeff Greer 45:08

Through our website, son-aero.com. The Careers tab shows openings. You can call the office — the number is on the site — or email hr@son-aero.com.

Sunny Han 45:38

Amazing. Thank you for sharing your insight and perspective. Really appreciate it.

Jeff Greer 45:43

Thank you.